$30,000 Silver For a House?

The image to the right is intended to be placed on a t-shirt. It contains a simple statement about value and how to retain it. Pretty innocuous, don’t you think?

Looks can be deceiving….

One of the members to the list this image was a part of wrote:

The statement is false. $30,000.00 in silver 1 .oz at time will not buy a house in my market…won’t even touch it besides the fact no one would take payment for a house in silver liberty. Just an evaluation.

Being bored, and wanting to make a few people think, I wrote the following:

If you had saved 30,000 dollars in silver dollars, as minted by the US prior to the 60’s (which was 1 dollar for 1 ounce) you would have 300,000 dollars in silver coins (at least) today. Enough to buy a house in almost any market. That was the point being made; silver retains value, which makes the statement true. I would be willing to bet that a deal could be made in which silver can be exchanged for property. Most people who own property understand what real value is.

Then this response flew out of the peanut gallery:

The math is off here… Most US silver dollars (Morgan’s, Peace) have a net silver content of .77344 per $1(This is a higher content than the pre-65 dimes, quarters and halfs). 30,000 times .77344 equals 23,203.2 ounces of silver times $7oz equals $162,422.40. This amount is further contingent on someone actually giving you spot.
Return on investment(real inflation maybe?)
Annualized Return: 4.31%
Return for the entire period: 440.80%
Starting date: 9/8/1965
Starting value: $30,000.00
Ending date: 9/8/2005
Ending value: $162,422.40

My reply “whatever, enough to buy a house” lead to a rather lengthy exchange concerning house values, the definition of return, the definition of dream house, the questionable parental blood lines of parties to the argument, the sexual practices of those involved, etc. and ad nauseam (the average flame war) which then ended up with this:

I’m beating a dead horse here, but I like horse paste, I guess. All the bitching about what the value of silver coins from 40 years ago would be today lead me to investigate what was available 40 years ago, and what it would be worth today. If you go here there is a description of what was available, coinage wise, and why, during the period being referenced.

So the coins that were available (and at face value then) were the Morgan and Peace dollars. Referencing the price guides at the links above, and going with the lowest price listed (15 dollars, if I’m not mistaken) for a silver dollar of that era, we get a rough value for 30,000 silver dollars being something in the realm of 450,000 dollars, not the 300,000 thousand that I originally estimated. As you can see, I was being conservative in my estimate.

Of course, the coins would probably have to be sold at auction, and so the value might be lower, but then there would be the odd coin that would have a greater value, and so the value might also be higher.

…BUT, even given the (inflated) average value for a house in the US as stated by others, 225,000 dollars, you could clearly buy a ‘better than average’ house (a ‘dream house’ in the estimation of the average person) with 30,000 silver dollars saved for 40 years.

With that argument, gentlemen, I rest my case. 😉

There was, of course, another explosion from the peanut gallery (something about my mother, I’m sure) but I consider the case closed. I’m probably mistaken though.

Why? Because this sort of stuff can just kept cropping up:

This might provide a more easily comprehensible example to those of us who have not been 29 for 35 or so years.

When I was in high school, (58, 59, 60, and 61) you could go into any bank and exchange Federal Reserve Notes in any denomination for Silver Dollars (also known at the time as “Cartwheels”. They contain 371.?? grains of fine silver and some other metals to make them wear better as circulating coins. They were therefore 90% silver as required by the U.S. Constitution and the 1792 Coinage Act made in pursuance thereof. They were honest weights and measures.Convertibility into silver was stopped in 1964.

Had you, in 1963 placed 3,000 Silver Dollars into one Safe Deposit Box and 3000 one-dollar Federal Reserve Notes in another Safe Deposit Box, and still had them today, you could make this comparison.

In 1963, If memory serves, you could buy a fully loaded mid-line Chevy for about $3000.00. (remember, you could convert paper to silver and silver to paper then one-for-one) If you went to your Safe Deposit Boxes today, and drew out those two stashes of $3000.00, the 3000.00 silver dollars would still buy you a brand new mid line Chevy (because you could convert them into $30,000.00 in Federal reserve notes by selling them at current market prices.) However, the 3000 Federal Reserve Note “dollars” that you took out of the other Safety Deposit Box, would probably scarcely buy you much more than a nice set of wheels, tires and wheel covers.

The U.S. “Government” has become the greatest enemy of Freedom and Prosperity ever to exist on this planet. It smashes and crushes Liberty everywhere; like a plague of Locusts it consumes everything its path, leaving “scorched earth” and rotting bodies behind, all the while, grinning like some evil clown and proclaiming that it is trying to “Spread Freedom” to all peoples.

It is effectively a parasite which is like a vampire that has learned not to immediately kill the host; but simply drink it’s blood a little at a time, keeping it weak and emaciated but still retaining it as a food source.

The Federal Reserve admits that the income tax is NOT to raise revenue to run the government, but is primarily to facilitate the “re-distribution of income.” What do they mean by that? What they mean by that in plain English is that it’s purpose is to raise money to buy votes with and thereby enable it to continue it’s consumption of all that is good in America.

America today is like a once robust, but gaunt, weak and sickly “Paul Bunyan”, lumbering along – unaware of the giant vampire bat attached to the back of his neck. The Vampire (U.S. Government) grows bigger and stronger by the day and will soon be larger than the host. It, like any parasite, will continue to feed until the host dies, unless the gentle giant awakens to his plight and removes the Vampire from his neck.

I mean, it never ends, does it? Now I have to go fight a vampire federal government, when all I was worried about was some newbies question about a t-shirt design involving using US silver dollars to buy a house.


…and remember. If you don’t hold the physical metal yourself for 30 years, you don’t get to keep the accrued value all to yourself. This is the problem with physical assets. You have to be able to hang onto them. This proposition requires social stability, a fact that anarchists never seem to take into account when arguing that we don’t need government. We do, if what we want is to hold onto what we’ve already acquired. This lesson can be learned simply by looking at places that do not have strong property rights protections.

Yet another conversation from history that now only exists on this blog unless some of my antagonists preserved a record of it as well. Some of those people meant well, they were trying to explain the con that was being conducted right in front of all of our eyes, but were failing to touch on the specific point where the con originated. It wasn’t the historical value of silver that was the problem, but was instead the value of silver being manipulated by those who were turning silver into a currency again. They were driving the price of silver upwards, not the value of the metal in and of itself. They knew this, even if we average silver traders didn’t.

Silver does lose its value if silver can’t be bartered for what you want directly. If you can’t barter with it, it has no value as a currency. If you have to treat silver like a commodity and sell it for currency of whatever denomination in order to do whatever you want with that value, then you as a barterer have admitted that silver does not have value as a currency. Silver has lost its value and you simply won’t admit this fact to yourself. Now we need to update the U.S. Constitution to reflect the reality on the ground in the United States today. Good luck with that effort.

Your Liberty Dollars have doubled!

The base value for an ounce of silver in the American Liberty Dollar system doubled from 10 dollars to 20 dollars at the end of last November. Anyone currently holding certificates or rounds denoted “10 dollar base” has effectively doubled their money.

PLEASE BE INFORMED… (1) If you had digital eLD, your account balance has been doubled. (2) If you wish to redeem your eLD, you will get the new $20 Silver Liberty. The $20 Base paper Silver Certificates will be available by March 2006. Please note article below and the Question of the Month for more info. (3) If you have paper Silver Certificates, you can exchange them for new $20 Silver Base certificates by March 2006 at NO charge or you may redeem them for one ounce Silver Libertys at any time, up to 20 years from date of issue. (4) If you have one ounce $10 Silver Libertys, you may exchange them for one ounce $20 Silver Libertys with a reminting fee of only $1.50 each through your RCO or the National Fulfillment Office in Evansville, Indiana. The $1.50 reminting fee is a SPECIAL OFFER FOR ONLY 60 DAYS: from November 24 to Friday, January 20. After January 20th the reminting fee will be $3.00 for each $20 Silver Liberty and $1.50 for each $10 Half Liberty, still a great price to “double your money.”


Silver rounds are available NOW. The reminting fee will be a buck fifty until January 20th, when it will go up to 3 dollars. Certificates, as stated in LIBERTY DOLLAR NEWS will be available in March of next year.


In the second article on the subject for the blog, I’m just blithely stating the profit margin guaranteed the minter in exchange for maintaining the American Liberty Dollar system. Never mind that he holds tons of silver that goes up in value every day that the system continues. It is a nice racket to be in.

I never understood the point of ELD or Electronic Liberty Dollars. I never understood buying the promissory notes/certificates. The point of wanting to own silver was that you didn’t know if the silver was real unless you held it in your hands. The Liberty Dollar organization saying trust us, it’s in the vault is no different than the bank telling you trust us it’s in the vault, and if you are already buying the silver from lack of trust, operating on a basis of trust is more than just a bit counter-intuitive. Are they treating you like the mark in a confidence game? I wouldn’t bet against it.

The Liberty Dollar

This is my first time to talk about it, I’m going to call it what it is. Anyway, Jason gave the site I moderate a favorable plug, I thought I’d do the same for his blog that plugs it. http://austinsilver.blogspot.com (Thanks Jason!)

I was introduced to ALD about 4 years ago by Michael Badnarik, back when he was just a computer programmer looking for work, and not the most recognizable Libertarian on the face of the planet. If I only knew then what I know now… I’d have bought more silver, that’s for sure.

I’m enjoying the fall chest crud. I’m crawling back off to bed.