I posted this bit of comedy to my Facebook wall:
It was mere moments later when the boor showed up to tell me how this wasn’t true or funny:
I loved Gearge Carlin. If we don’t let the rich exploit the poor they would not stay rich long, then their would be no way for the poor to earn a living. I guess we could all live on government benefits until they run out. Sounds like a fun ride.James Robert Swartz
The rich do not feed/employ/house the poor. It’s simply not the case.
No, they give them jobs. Have you ever got a job from a poor man? That $100 I made yesterday, it was at the house of a rich person, but somehow I did not feel exploited. I felt grateful, even though it caused me pain. Does that make me stupid because I did not petition the government to just take the money from him and give it to me?James Robert Swartz
So we end up fighting over the table scraps of the wealthy who now own and control us all. I’ll make a counter offer. I invite the wealthy (since they are so much better than the rest of us) to simply hand over all their wealth and move off to Galt’s Gulch like the true creators of Ayn Rand’s novel.
…I mean, they’ll just make it all again, since they are so deserving, right? Otherwise, perhaps they should admit that they need to contribute some of what they have if they don’t want to lose it all. Because that’s the way it’s headed.
But who would you have to tax and support the poor if the rich left?James Robert Swartz
“Tax and support the poor” I’d laugh, but it’s not a funny joke. The wealthy pay less than the working middle class, less than the working poor, for the most part. Seriously, try studying the subject before spouting off about it.
I wasn’t talking about the working poor, I was talking about those on benefits. Rich people pay more taxes percentage wise per person that working poor. I have never paid income taxes, even those few years I broke 40,000. I have paid property taxes, sales taxes, gasoline taxes, but never income.James Robert Swartz
(He’s never paid income taxes, even in years when he made $40k? I’m sure the IRS would love to know about that. -ed.) Tell me, what is rich to you?
To me, anyone who makes of 60,000 is rich and lives way better than meDelete or hide thisJames Robert Swartz
That’s a laugh. 60k is working poor.*
*For a family of 4 or more living in an urban area. The US data is BS on this subject. They still claim it’s 22k, which is bullshit numbers even in Texas. A family that lives on 22k in Texas lives in the car that doesn’t run anymore. I doubt that a family of 4 that grossed 60k can afford much besides basic sustenance in any major city of the US.
OMG, I must be poverty stricken, I only made half that last year and still managed to survive, living in a house on an acre, with 2 cars and a motorcycle.
I guess since I don’t have a boat, I must be poor
I see why we disagree so much. You never learned the value of a dollarJames Robert Swartz
There is no ‘value’ to a dollar. That is the first, basic, misconception you are operating under:
When I hear people whining incessantly about the undeserving getting handouts from government, I’m reminded of this guy:
…and this little piece dropped like a stone when I posted it previously. Tell me about ‘fair’ after watching it:
…but none of this, NONE OF IT, has anything to do with the basic contradiction that one of the pantheon of the comic gods pointed out; that giving more money to the wealthy does the opposite of giving money to the poor; at least in the mind of your average conservative, a group I’m thankful I’ve never mistakenly identified myself as.
James, this issue is simple. The wealthy in this country are wealthy because of the infrastructure, and stability provided by this country. Stability built on the taxes provided by the citizens of this country. It’s their responsibility to return the favor, by reinvesting in that foundation, so that this country can continue to prosper. Educating, feeding, and providing medical care for American citizen, is the best way to ensure that a new generation of Americans can become wealthy, and thus protects the American dream we all hold dear.
If they wish to voluntarily do such things, fine. But using force is wrong. We all pay for infrastructure through gasoline and over-the-road taxation, so anyone who uses the roads and bridges already paid for them. Of course corrupt politicians cannot keep their hands off of any pool of money and use it for purposes it was not extracted for. It is not anyones responsibility to pay for another’s education, food, health care or housing. If it is the legal responsibility of the government to take from the rich and give to the poor, then they should just take it all and put them in concentration camps and distribute according to need. This quasi-communist attitude that the rich owe something to the poor is destroying the concept of individual liberty, which is based on the principal of personal responsibility. It is not the utilitarianism of the situation, it is the principal. Either we are free or we are subjects to be supported and manipulated for the betterment of society overall, and the empowerment of the government. So far government has used it’s credit, to keep from manipulating the people, by borrowing money for social programs, (and excessive military spending) but it cannot go on. And since the MIC is too powerful to contend with, and the AARP will not let government cut benefit programs, when the government cannot borrow or print their way out, it will be too late to salvage anything of the “American Dream” you so admire.James Robert Swartz
…and again, still nothing to do with the observation from Carlin.
James, volunteering is not required, that’s how taxes work. The founding fathers created the system we have with this exact philosophy in mind. Ben Franklin said it best:
“All the property that is necessary to a Man, for the Conservation of the Individual and the Propagation of the Species, is his natural Right, which none can justly deprive him of: But all Property superfluous to such purposes is the Property of the Publick, who, by their Laws, have created it, and who may therefore by other laws dispose of it, whenever the Welfare of the Publick shall demand such Disposition. He that does not like civil Society on these Terms, let him retire and live among Savages. He can have no right to the benefits of Society, who will not pay his Club towards the Support of it.”
You may not think it’s anyone’s responsibility to pay for things that go to the greater public good, but your opinion is irrelevant. We have a thing called the constitution in this country, and taxes, federal, state, and sales, are all legal, and protected by its authority. If you don’t like it, then I suggest moving, though I suspect it will be hard to find somewhere nice to live that doesn’t tax its citizens similarly(which isn’t a coincidence).
I do not oppose taxation. In fact, I think we should get rid the principal of self-ownership and put all the people with more than enough to survive in concentration camps. anyone who has more than 15X15 of living space is being selfish. Anyone who eats more than 2500 calories a day is being a PIG. I think it is “proper and necessary” just like the Constitution says. Obviously people, in or out of gov’t cannot be trusted. We gave the gov’t trillions to save for our retirement. What did they do? They used it for bailing out corporations, selling themselves Treasury Bonds to fill the void. When they come due, The cost of SS will double. They used the money to fight wars to spread corporate markets. They used it to pander to their constituents and keep themselves in power. Democracy has failed.The politicians have voted money from the Treasury to keep themselves in power.They borrowed and printed and pandered us to the breaking point. It is time for dictatorship It is “proper and necessary” at this point. Govt’ cannot be trusted. The founding fathers knew this and they limited it’s power. Slowly politicians have used the flaws document as a tool to enhance their power. Demicracy has failed, it is time for dictatorship to crush these “freedom Nazis” and give the people what they need to survive.James Robert Swartz
Ownership of self doesn’t mean what you think it means, James. Yet another in a long list of misconceptions that lead you to the hateful place you live in. How can you prove self-ownership? Do you have a deed? Do you believe that you are self-sufficient and therefore own yourself? Utter nonsense. No one is self-sufficient:
You are already a child of the state, so what do you know of self-ownership
I am being sincere. You soft liberals pontificating about helping this group or that, yet people still suffer. You want to make society fair. It will never happen under democracy. We nee dictatorshipJames Robert Swartz
Hate, hate, hate. I’ll tell you the same thing I tell other friends who clearly spend too much time alone. Join a dating site, go to church, go volunteer somewhere. Learn to socialize with equals. Then you might understand exactly how sociopathic you sound right now.
All you know how to do is attack. But as a master of the art of argumentation, I turn your attacks against you. You injure yourself while attempting to injure others.
truth hurts doesn’t it. Coming from someone that thinks 60,000 is working poor, you must feel guilty as hell when you see people working their asses of for 25,000 a yearJames Robert Swartz
Repeating myself here: *For a family of 4 or more living in an urban area. The US data is BS on this subject. They still claim it’s 22k, which is bullshit numbers even in Texas. A family that lives on 22k in Texas lives in the car that doesn’t run anymore. I doubt that a family of 4 that grossed 60k can afford much besides basic sustenance in any major city of the US.
Having enough to get by appears to be particularly challenging in the East, whose residents give a significantly higher average estimate of what it takes to survive. And while people may gravitate to areas that provide the lifestyle they can best afford, suburban life — with its heavy emphasis on single-occupancy detached homes, auto-based transportation, and relatively well-off residents — may also be less hospitable for those whose incomes fall into the $30,000 to $60,000 category.businessinsider.com
…as I expanded on after you lol’ed your way into insignificance on the subject. Now you rage and rage as if you know what you are talking about, while being virtually clueless.
Personal experience, James. I have a family of 4. I know what the threshold is between sinking and swimming. You live alone in your hate-filled ranchette. I actually feel sorry for you. It’s the only reason I put up with you.
I could sure use some Government cheese about now; that stuff was delicious.Earl Cooley III
Government cheese has been discontinued, like most of the hated safety net. We gotta build more Abrams tanks, you know.
An Abrams tank built out of government cheese wouldn’t last very long in the field.Earl Cooley III
I have no response to that, Earl.
Suffering builds character. Being spoonfed breed weakness
Haven’t you heard? What doesn’t kill you makes you stronger, and what makes you weak is having nothing that could kill you.James Robert Swartz
There’s a lot of character in your average poor in the US then:
The number of children living in poverty in the U.S. is up nearly 20 percent from 2000, according to the NCCP, because of higher unemployment and foreclosures. It’s a problem across the nation but children are the worst off in Alabama, Louisiana and Mississippi. They fare better in New Hampshire, Minnesota and Massachusetts.abcnews.go.com
Nietzsche was full shit. You can quote me on that. It is his kind of perverted bullshit that has inspired some of the most hated and hateful governments in world history, and quoting him at me is possibly the most hurtful thing that anyone could do. Choosing to challenge oneself makes you stronger. Going to bed hungry every night makes you die young.
…and again, explain to your children, to me, to anyone, your objection to the George Carlin quote that started this thread. Explain how giving money to rich people works, but giving money to poor people doesn’t. This is my thread, on my wall. If you don’t want to play by my rules, I will delete your posts. I’m definitely not Dan Carlin. I find it hard to imagine how you could be more inflexible on a subject. There is no current spending that Republicans want to cut:
Which means that the corporate payouts will continue. Corporate payouts that benefit wealthy people. To give an answer to the question that you previously asked in the form of indictment; money is a meaningless concept when outside of a group. There is no need to trade with yourself.
The dollars we trade in the US are not really our property. It’s hard to define what they are, since they don’t have any existence outside of the computer systems that keep track of the numbers. If they were our property, we would be able to barter them for silver, etcetera, which the government has said we do not have the right to do. Given the conditions set upon the use of dollars, the government can and does take what it needs to run. It’s not really an issue of opinions for or against.
Try to define money. Most people cannot.
Money is what I use to buy my groceries and pay my mortgage. It what I recieve for a hard days work. I guess if all I had to do for my money was walk out to the mailbox, i may have a different definition.James Robert Swartz
That is not a definition. This is a definition:
What is money? Money is any good that is widely used and accepted in transactions involving the transfer of goods and services from one person to another. Economists differentiate among three different types of money: commodity money, fiat money, and bank money. Commodity money is a good whose value serves as the value of money. Gold coins are an example of commodity money. In most countries, commodity money has been replaced with fiat money. Fiat money is a good, the value of which is less than the value it represents as money. Dollar bills are an example of fiat money because their value as slips of printed paper is less than their value as money. Bank money consists of the book credit that banks extend to their depositors. Transactions made using checks drawn on deposits held at banks involve the use of bank money.Economics: Definition of Money
Fiat money is, in fact, not real.
a thing is what it does. When money comes as easy as filling out some paperwork and making some phone calls, it is easy to say money is not real. But when you rely on work for money, it becomes more important. That disease you have, Meniere’s, looks like it be pretty easy to fake. My brother is completely deaf, yet he works and does not receive disability. I am interested to konw, how much more do you think the government should spend on social programs? Should they raise taxes 33% to cover the deficit, and then even more to be even more generous? What the hell do you really Want?James Robert Swartz
I enjoy the fact that my getting disability annoys you. That I can sit on my (vertiginous) ass and piss you off just by sitting here. Such power I have. Such power you give to me. It wasn’t nearly as easy as you make out to get disability:
Tell me how the George Carlin image is wrong. I mean it. Any post after this that doesn’t address the image will be deleted. I am quite serious. Explain away the subject of the image (which you have not done, no matter how many times you repost the assertion you have) how giving money to rich people is good, but giving money to poor people is bad.
One more post on the subject of the image debunking trickle-down:
…which is what Carlin is tangentially referring to.
A hat/tip is owed to Oliver Hoffmann whose quotes I included in the text without attribution. It reads better that way. I left Earl’s quotes in just the way he wrote them. Earl deserves to be printed widely.
James Robert Swartz is InquizaJamesAtribalist from the good/bad ol’ days of the DCBBS. I’ve duplicated the majority of this thread simply as an example of what it is that drove me from libertarianism. I don’t think it needs to be said that I also duplicated the argument here so I cold embroider my answers with additional material. This is, after all, the purpose of a blog. A personal diary. A narrative of your own creation.
I deleted several comments after the last one where I put my foot down, and several in between. I’ve forgotten how many. Another commenter on another thread summed up my feelings on most of my interactions with people like James Robert Swartz:
I don’t understand the mentality that enjoys causing others pain in some way. People who go to a site just to disrupt and denigrate. I see a lot of guys go to specifically women’s sports pages just to say have awful women athletes are and any high school boy’s team could beat them. I’m happy my life is filled with family and friends so I don’t feel the need to bully others to feel better about myself.
It is the zero sum mentality. To feel better, you have to make someone else feel worse. Airlocking these people is the only way to deal with them. If they believe the only way to win is to make the other guy lose, then you have to make them lose. You have to make them lose, not because that makes you a winner, but because that is the only way to satisfy the rules of the game that they are playing.
You lose, goodbye.
If the world is going to hell in a bucket, I want to hold the handle.Anthony Cloyden Hayes